IT Week Interview: Online messaging sets = standards

From: Subject: IT Week Interview: Online messaging sets standards Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:11:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C157C5.A027A0D0"; type="multipart/alternative" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C157C5.A027A0D0 Content-Type: image/gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Location: http://www.zdnet.co.uk/graphics/planet/itweek.gif R0lGODlh0QFQAOYAAP/////39/j4/Pf39/f08fzv7/Xx7u/v9+/v7/Ht6Ojo9O3n4ebm8ubm5vnf 397e997e7+be1t7e3vXPz+jVztbW6tbW7+DWzNbW1tzQxM7O5/K/v9fKvczMzMXF7MXF4tTFt8XF xe+vr8+/r7y86b293r29vb+6tbW12si2pLKy5bW1teyfn8Wyn6+v4t2jnMOvm62t1r+qla2trbym kKWl0umPj6Oj0cWckJ+f37mii6WlpauglLWcg5mZzOV/f5WV3KyWgNaDfJmZmZmZmYqK17WGb+Jv b4yMjJeJe4KC1ZOFdoaGht9fX8xmZrhyX3l50r9nWIx6aXx7etxQUHl3dH5yZ3Nzc2ZmzGZmzNBL RnlsX9lAQG1sa75MP8dAN2ZmZm9kWtYwMMwzM2dZTFpaWsUmH11TR9IgIFJSUs0YFn09KktLS88Q 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Online messaging sets=20 standards

Brian = Whetten,=20 chief scientist at data distribution specialist Talarian, = talks to=20 Lem Bingley about the problems of creating a standard = method=20 to transport data between companies over the Internet=20

IT Week: = Talarian=20 sells messaging products. What does that involve? =

Brian=20 Whetten: Messaging falls into two categories: queuing, where = IBM=20 dominates [with its MQSeries products]; and publish and = subscribe,=20 typified by Talarian and Tibco. Queuing is slow = typically 100=20 messages per second or less and by definition is=20 point-to-point. [Data] is delivered with database levels of=20 guarantees, so it can be used, for example, where money = changes=20 hands. Publish and subscribe is complementary. It tends to = be up to=20 a thousand times faster and is one-to-many, but does not = offer the=20 same reliability guarantees.

You are = working=20 with several bodies on messaging standards. How are these=20 initiatives progressing?

A watershed event was the = [adoption=20 of] Java Message Service [JMS], which is now a required = piece of=20 J2EE, the application server standard being driven by Sun. I = like to=20 compare JMS to SQL. Twenty years ago, databases were custom = things=20 and SQL was a watershed that standardised them and allowed = vendors=20 to compete on performance, reliability and scalability. It = started a=20 wave of high-level application development. The analogy in = the=20 messaging market is enterprise application integration = [EAI]. There=20 are lots of people doing EAI. The first wave was about = getting any=20 kind of connectivity; the second wave will be about = scalability and=20 reliability. JMS is just an application programming = interface [API],=20 not a specification of the infrastructure, and it's up to = vendors to=20 implement it efficiently. It's interesting because it covers = both=20 queuing and publish and subscribe.

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What are=20 you working on at the Internet Engineering Task Force = [IETF]?=20

I'm doing work on a protocol called PGM [Pragmatic = Group=20 Multicast, formerly Pretty Good Multicast]. The protocol is=20 currently in a working group under the charter of the IETF, = but we=20 haven't yet got an IETF status for it. It's a long and = complicated=20 story. PGM may be [merged with other work] or it may push = through in=20 some form by itself. We have been working on it for a long = time, but=20 it's a bit premature to talk about it [as a standard].=20

What does PGM do?

If you look = at a=20 messaging infrastructure, at the top the API is JMS and = underneath=20 the protocol will be PGM. Soap and XML are the gateway = standards=20 [connecting different applications, sites or organisations]. = We've=20 driven PGM with Cisco and it's the de facto standard for = one-to-many=20 distribution of data, whether it's Web pages or video clips = =20 RealNetworks is a customer and Nortel is also a backer. [It = is also=20 used by] IT managers who need to push, for example, price = updates or=20 software updates to remote locations.

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JMS was=20 created under Sun's Java Community Process. How does that = compare=20 with the IETF?

As a very active long-term IETF = member, I=20 think the IETF is wonderful for the lowest levels of the=20 infrastructure. However, we have been deluding ourselves = about our=20 ability to create higher-level standards that add value and = new=20 capabilities to the Internet. We have learned the hard way = that you=20 need a top-down solution as well as a bottom-up solution to = complete=20 the business value proposition. JMS is about delivering real = value=20 to customers in the short term, so that IT managers and = others are=20 able to build things right away, whereas the IETF starts = with=20 academics and vendors to build the best thing for all people = all=20 over the world. Neither approach works in all cases = you need=20 both of them. The challenge is how to merge the two.=20

This article = appears in=20 the September 10th issue of IT Week

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ITWeek = Interview=20

Online messaging sets = standards=20

ABOUT=20 BRIAN WHETTEN=20

Brian Whetten is chief scientist at = messaging=20 software vendor Talarian.=20
Whetten was previously a founder and chief = technologist at GlobalCast Communications, a = multicast=20 specialist that was acquired by Talarian in = 1999.=20
He is involved in the formulation of = multicast and=20 content distribution protocols at the Internet = Engineering Task Force (IETF).=20
Whetten has a PhD in computer science from = the=20 University of California at Berkeley.=20

Whetten: JMS delivers real value =

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